If stealing from a rich person is the only way to get the money to start the revolution.
If killing people who stop the revolution is necessary
If making people who dont want to change suffer and go through pain
Then so be it.
The way I see it. The people in charge are not MY government, they do not represent me. They are parasites. They do not belong. Yet they control everything, and have stolen countless trillions of dollars from the people. They have taken from us. Why be so nice about getting what we want?
Some people will not want this revolution. Forget them.
Police will arrest you and soldiers will kill you for going against the norm that the "government" set. This doesnt make you bad.
This is war.
If killing people who stop the revolution is necessary
If making people who dont want to change suffer and go through pain
Then so be it.
The way I see it. The people in charge are not MY government, they do not represent me. They are parasites. They do not belong. Yet they control everything, and have stolen countless trillions of dollars from the people. They have taken from us. Why be so nice about getting what we want?
Some people will not want this revolution. Forget them.
Police will arrest you and soldiers will kill you for going against the norm that the "government" set. This doesnt make you bad.
> This is war.
In the old days, that is how wars was fought, today there are more civilised ways to beat your enemy that involve less bloody conflict.
> If stealing from a rich person is the only way to get the money to start
> the revolution.
Another way is to become the rich person.
> If killing people who stop the revolution is necessary
I don't think that is necessary these days, nor really legal
> The way I see it. The people in charge are not MY government
They are not ideally mine either..
But, we can vote in whoever we want, so perhaps if we put up some of our own candiates, we could vote them and then have the government we want.
That would at least make the journey a little easier.
> They are parasites.
I do agree some are like that, but not all.
We need to vote out the bad and in with the good.
> Police will arrest you and soldiers will kill you for going against the norm that
> the "government" set.
As I see it, there is plenty of legal methods at our disposal to change things, without needing to do anything that upsets the government.
For example, creating jobs so we have the resources to build the future would get government approval!
I like your reply.
many valid points. and intelligent points raised.
However this does not discredit all of the points made.
It is extremely difficult to go from being unemployed to a billionaire.
People often repress their shadow side, but I say that the shadow side offers some creative solutions to problems.
If a banker who got rich off scamming lots of money off of people gets his money stolen back for the benefit of all. Then is this really so bad?
Is it bad to not always be so nice and legal about certain things.
Laws are put in place by who? our leaders? and the government? politicians are elected and represent who? the people in charge. I do not vote because Im pretty sure the same policies and social systems would still take place regardless of who I vote for.
> It is extremely difficult to go from being unemployed to a billionaire.
Indeed.
Perhaps one of the lessons we can learn from those that do, is how they work with others to achieve their aims.
I reckon as such we could make great progress should we cooperate on tasks at hand.
For example, if we look at how microfinance allows those considered poor in one land, to help those in another, it is an example of how cooperation in todays system can be achieved.
http://www.kiva.org/team/the_zeitgeist_movement
Or how computing power can be put to use when combined efforts are focused:
http://aqua.dwavesys.com/team_display.php?teamid=1213
Being how the UK rather lacks microfinance sites, I reckon one of our own would help.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfinance
> Is it bad to not always be so nice and legal about certain things.
I know what you mean.
But if one stays 100% legal, its harder to get into trouble
Economic warfare is where its at today as I see it.
So, rather than go and break someones window when you are annoyed, instead you put them out of business by producing a better product that causes their customers to come to you instead..
One can even be somewhat kind about it and buy them out instead of putting them out of business when it appears that they will lose, then you can employ them to work for you without too much disruption.
As the saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat..
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/There%27s_more_than_one_way_to_skin_a_cat
> I do not vote because Im pretty sure the same policies and social systems would still
> take place regardless of who I vote for.
Whilst I share your concerns there, I do wish to point out that the UK is particularly prone these days to voter apathy, with such a low turnout, its no wonder the wrong people get voted in so easily!
My current favourite example re. the power of what a few votes can do is:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23890393-labour-outcast-l...
> He secured 23,283 first-preference votes, to take him to victory with 51.7 per cent
> on a turnout of just 25.6 percent.
> With a turnout of just 25.6% Rahman got in with a vote of close to
> 13% of the electorate
http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2010/05/brighton-pavilion-result-firs...
I heard this happened because the Green Party made a focused effort to appeal to voters in the area, even to the extent of ringing them up individually!
I would vote for a TZM politican if one existed and had the right policies..
I see voting as attacking the problem from the top down, whilst we can also do street level stuff from the bottom up that doesn't require political change, at the same time.
yes I suppose your correct, also breaking the law would most likely be a negative thing.
Yes, if you're going to run a con on a wealthy fat-cat then I think you should do it using the same rules he does - legal ones (or bending slightly through creative use of accountants, PR, etc.).
Also violence is never an answer, you can meditate some more and learn to accept that anger as a passing state (as everything else), rather than something that can control you. Violence only begets more violence. Also, fighting with some middle-tier (accessible) capitalist will only keep the guys at the top protected, you need to attack the whole economy, by exposing it for what it really is, because it cannot work without people believing in its illusion... the more it cracks, the more people will see it's true nature.
I have asked for a very special Christmas present from everyone this year - and I ask it of you too... please spend nothing whatsoever on me and spend as little as possible on anyone you feel that you absolutely must get a gift for. If possible make something or write something (some music, a poem, a card, a story), or do something nice for them instead. The less everyone spends, the happier I am and the better my present.
Oh and just to clear something up...
Yes, I do advocate doing all that you can to make the economy collapse.
No, I don't think it would be good if the economy completely collapsed.
To clear up this apparent contradiction, understand that the economy can't collapse in the 'sudden' sense of the word - it will collapse slowly with governments and banks coming up with all sorts of crazy schemes to prop it up and keep it going. So since the 'collapse' will be slow regardless, the quicker we can make it happen combined with plenty of education of course so that people are aware of an alternative, the better.
So, spend less, keep your money as cash (not in a bank), get the minimum legal requirement for insurance, don't bother voting - it really doesn't matter who's in power, stop paying your TV license and taxes (legally, check out http://www.tpuc.org).
At the same time - go ahead and try some money-making projects/businesses that are aligned towards an RBE (as Nanos suggests) - you have to make a living anyhow in the current state of affairs, might as well do something that will be useful in an RBE rather than something that will be obsolete like flipping burgers that any old machine could do 100 times better and more consistently.
Also, go out and educate people, get them thinking about society and how it operates, challenge their conditioning, let them know about TZM and all the materials that support our messages.
> spend as little as possible
That is easy when you are broke!
> I do advocate doing all that you can to make
> the economy collapse.
I advocate the oppersite, as I see a strong economy is necessary to have the resources to change things.
Otherwise we are just poor people with no influence in the world, living in a land where the majority are likewise ineffective compared to how they could be if they had resources.
> keep your money as cash (not in a bank)
Assuming any of us actually have any money in the first place..
Its not necessarly a bad thing to keep some of it in cash, though do bare in mind you will need someplace safe to keep it from those breaking in to steal it..
(Ideally we need our own Z bank, so people can keep it someplace safe, but worry less about the bank vanishing overnight because it was run badly..)
> don't bother voting - it really doesn't matter who's
> in power
I disagree there.
Though there isn't much in the way of good choice sadly.. but we could change that if we wanted by putting up better political choices for people to vote for.
> stop paying your TV license and taxes
I'm not aware how you can do that legally, and do not recommend any such advice on how to do so.
(It also helps to keep the government on your side if you do pay your taxes..)
One can do without a TV licence if you don't watch it live, eg. BBC IPlayer download and watch stuff means you can do without it.